Legislature(1997 - 1998)

01/28/1998 03:35 PM Senate RES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
                                                                               
              SENATE RESOURCES COMMITTEE                                       
                   January 28, 1998                                            
                      3:35 P.M.                                                
                                                                               
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                
                                                                               
Senator Rick Halford, Chairman                                                 
Senator Lyda Green, Vice Chairman                                              
Senator Loren Leman                                                            
Senator Bert Sharp                                                             
Senator Robin Taylor                                                           
Senator John Torgerson                                                         
Senator Georgianna Lincoln                                                     
                                                                               
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                 
                                                                               
Senator John Torgerson                                                         
                                                                               
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                             
                                                                               
SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 33                                                 
Supporting passage of S. 1221, the "American Fisheries Act," by the            
United States Congress.                                                        
                                                                               
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION                                               
                                                                               
SJR 33 - No previous action to consider.                                       
                                                                               
WITNESS REGISTER                                                               
                                                                               
Senator Jerry Mackie                                                           
State Capitol Bldg.                                                            
Juneau, AK 99811-1182                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of SJR 33.                                         
                                                                               
Mr. Ron Dalby, Employment Manager                                              
American Seafood At-Sea Processors                                             
P.O. Box 1431                                                                  
Palmer, AK 99645                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SJR 33.                                            
                                                                               
Ms. Michelle Ridgway                                                           
119 Seward St., #9                                                             
Juneau, AK 99801                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 33.                                          
                                                                               
                                                                               
Mr. Dave Benson, Director                                                      
Government Affairs                                                             
Tyson Seafoods                                                                 
P.O. Box 79021                                                                 
Seattle, WA 98119                                                              
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 33.                                          
                                                                               
Mr. Joe Plesha                                                                 
Trident Seafoods                                                               
5303 Shilshole Ave. N.W.                                                       
Seattle, WA 98107                                                              
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 33.                                          
                                                                               
Mr. Vince Curry                                                                
Alaska Prime Resources Consultant                                              
P.O. Box 201429                                                                
Anchorage, AK                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SJR 33.                                            
                                                                               
Mr. Henry Mitchell                                                             
Mitchell, Inc./Tyson Seafoods                                                  
900 W. 5th Ave.                                                                
Anchorage, AK 99502                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 33.                                          
                                                                               
Mr. Jim Ingram                                                                 
P.O. Box 851                                                                   
Dillingham, AK 99576                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SJR 33.                                            
                                                                               
Mr. Al Burch                                                                   
Draggers Association                                                           
P.O. Box 884                                                                   
Kodiak, AK 99615                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 33.                                          
                                                                               
Mr. Eugene Asicksik, President                                                 
Norton Sound Economic Development Council                                      
Kouskov St                                                                     
Kodiak, AK 99615                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SJR 33.                                       
                                                                               
Ms. Tammy Pound                                                                
Unalaska, AK 99685                                                             
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SJR 33.                                            
                                                                               
Mr. Tiny Shasteen                                                              
Unalaska, AK 99685                                                             
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SJR 33.                                            
                                                                               
Mr. Kenny Wilson                                                               
P.O. Box 766                                                                   
Dillingham, AK 99576                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SJR 33.                                            
                                                                               
Mr. Oliver Holm                                                                
P.O. Box 3865                                                                  
Kodiak, AK 99615                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 33.                                          
                                                                               
Mr. Jeff Stephan                                                               
United Fisheremen's Marketing Association                                      
P.O. Box 2917                                                                  
Kodiak, AK 99615                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 33.                                          
                                                                               
Mr. Chris Berns                                                                
P.O. Box 26                                                                    
Kodiak, AK 99615                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 33.                                          
                                                                               
Mr. Ron Selby, Mayor                                                           
Kodiak, AK 99615                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 33.                                          
                                                                               
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                               
                                                                               
TAPE 98-1, SIDE A                                                              
Number 001                                                                     
                                                                               
             SJR 33 - SUPPORT AMERICAN FISHERIES ACT                           
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN HALFORD called the Senate Resources Committee meeting to              
order at 3:35 p.m. and announced SJR 33 to be up for consideration.            
                                                                               
SENATOR MACKIE, sponsor of SJR 33, said he introduced this                     
legislation to put Alaska on record in support of Congressional                
initiative S. 1221 or the "American Fisheries Act" which preserves             
American control of the commercial fisheries in our nation's 200               
mile economic zone and improves the conservation of those                      
resources.                                                                     
                                                                               
The act would increase the U.S. ownership standard for vessels                 
fishing in U.S. waters and close a loophole in the commercial                  
fishing reflagging prohibitions that allowed at least 14 additional            
large factory trawlers in waters off Alaska.  The bill would also              
phase out all large factory ships whose size and harvesting power              
threaten conservation management goals and responsibilities.                   
                                                                               
Alaskan fishermen and on shore processors have struggled to gain a             
foothold in these new and valuable fisheries off of our own shores.            
The State has directly assisted in this development through loans              
and tax incentives.  It is estimated that at least $80 million was             
spent in bottomfish facilities alone in the 1986 to 1991 period of             
the State's tax incentive program.  In addition to allowing                    
expanded harvesting opportunities to Alaskan fishermen, this                   
development has extended the processing season in many communities             
so that year-round jobs have replaced the seasonal, migrant worker             
prone jobs.  The year-round operations of Alaska's seafood industry            
has further stabilized the economies of Alaska's major                         
transshipment and commercial centers.                                          
                                                                               
The growth and presence of large, foreign controlled fishing fleets            
in U.S. waters contradicts the very purpose and intent of the                  
original Magnuson-Stevens Act to control and Americanize the                   
harvest of offshore fish resources and protect them from depletion.            
The current overcapitalization of the offshore harvesting capacity             
threatens both the resources and our Alaskan economic stake in its             
continued health.  He believes that the success of Senator Stevens             
in the passage of S.1221 is of foremost importance to the economic             
interests of the State and its citizens.  Moreover, it is critical             
to the long term vitality and sustainability of our offshore marine            
resources.                                                                     
                                                                               
SENATOR MACKIE said Senator Stevens was not able to attend this                
meeting via teleconference, but faxed a statement to be read into              
the record.  It's dated January 28, 1998.  "Dear Senator Mackie:               
Thank you for introducing SJR 33 in support of S. 1221, the                    
American Fisheries Act, the bill Senator Murkowski and I introduced            
last September.  Our bill has three primary purposes: (1) to                   
implement a meaningful U.S.-ownership standard for U.S. fishing                
vessels; (2) to correct for misinterpretations of the 1987 Anti-               
reflagging Act; and (3) to impose a permanent moratorium on the                
entry of any more of the massive fishing vessels that have caused              
significant conservation and economic problems in our fisheries.               
As you move forward with the resolution, I thought it might be                 
useful to explain a little of the  history behind S. 1221.                     
                                                                               
In 1976, Congress extended U.S. jurisdiction over fisheries to 200             
miles through the Fishery Conservation and Management Act (what is             
now called the Magnuson-Stevens Act, or "MSA").  In addition to the            
goal of conserving the nation's fishery resources, the MSA gave                
U.S.-flag fishing vessels a priority over foreign vessels in the               
harvest of U.S. fishery resources.  In 1986, Alaska fishing                    
communities brought to the attention of Congress a loophole which              
allowed foreign investors to simply re-register their vessels to               
fly the U.S. flag and receive the priority to our fish.  Congress              
acted quickly through the 1987 Commercial Fishing Industry Anti-               
Reflagging Act to try to close this. Under the Anti-Reflagging Act,            
a fishing vessel must meet a 51 percent ownership standard to                  
qualify for the Coast Guard fishery endorsement that allows vessels            
to get the U.S. priority.  Congress also attempted through the                 
Anti-Reflagging Act to close a loophole which at the time allowed              
foreign-built vessels to qualify for U.S. fisheries using pieces of            
steel from former U.S. vessels and calling themselves "rebuilt."               
Unfortunately both the ownership and rebuild provisions of the                 
Anti-Reflagging Act were significantly misinterpreted by the Coast             
Guard and the court system.  These misinterpretations were among               
the reasons that I, Senator Murkowski, and Senators from New                   
England, Southeast, and Gulf of Mexico states proposed S. 1221.                
                                                                               
Without a clear distinction between U.S.-controlled vessels and                
foreign-controlled vessels, there is no way to provide the U.S.                
priority required by federal law.  In 1992, the D.C. Court of                  
Appeals let stand an interpretation of the Anti-Reflagging Act that            
gave all vessels already in the U.S. fisheries by 1987 or "rebuilt"            
overseas by 1990, a permanent exemption to the U.S. ownership                  
requirement. Congress had intended for a limited exemption in the              
Act to allow existing foreign owners to continue to operate vessels            
under U.S.-flag until they sold those vessels, but not for the                 
vessels to be permanently exempted.  S. 1221 would correct this by             
eliminating all exceptions to U.S. ownership and by requiring all              
U.S.-flag fishing vessels to comply within 18 months of enactment.             
The bill would also raise the ownership standard to 75 percent, the            
same standard used for other types of U.S.-flag vessels operated               
commercially in U.S. waters.                                                   
                                                                               
This type of domestic harvest priority is embodied in Article 62 of            
the United Nations Conference on the Law of the Sea and is the                 
recognized international law in the waters of every nation of the              
world.  Both Japan and Norway, for instance have laws which provide            
a priority for their citizens in the fisheries off their shores.               
Consistent with the requirements of the Law of the Sea, our federal            
law requires that foreign vessels be allowed to harvest any portion            
of the allowable catch which U.S. vessels cannot harvest.  In                  
almost all U.S. fisheries, however, there are enough vessels above             
the 75 percent U.S.-ownership standard to harvest the entire catch.            
                                                                               
The limited exception to the foreign rebuild prohibition in the                
Anti-Reflagging Act was also badly misinterpreted.  When the Act               
passed, Congress exempted from the prohibition any vessel for which            
a contract had already been signed, provided that the same person              
or entity who then held the contract also received delivery of the             
rebuilt vessel by 1990.  Congress did not want to fuel speculative             
investment in U.S. hulls, or create transferable value in option               
contracts for U.S. hulls that could qualify to be "rebuilt"                    
overseas into massive trawlers many times bigger than the original             
vessel.  Congress intended for the exemption to apply only to about            
a half dozen vessels for which investments were known to already               
have been made.  Under the Coast Guard's interpretation of the Act,            
however, an additional 18 vessels were allowed to be "rebuilt" into            
massive factory trawlers in foreign yards.  All 18 of these vessels            
have been able to operate in the U.S. fisheries off Alaska - not               
subject to even the existing U.S. ownership requirement.                       
                                                                               
S. 1221 would put the burden of solving the overcapitalization                 
problems created by these 18 vessels on the foreign owners of these            
vessels. The bill specifies that any of the 18 vessels that were               
not U.S.-owned as of September 25, 1997 can only remain in the                 
fisheries (as U.S. fishing vessels) if they become 75 percent U.S.             
owned, and if the fishery license for a vessel of equal or greater             
size is retired.  This is less extreme than simply kicking them out            
of the fisheries - it gives them a chance to sell stock or                     
otherwise cure their foreign ownership and remain in the fisheries             
if another vessel in the fisheries, which might include another of             
the 18 vessels, surrenders its fisheries license.                              
                                                                               
Opponents have suggested that S. 1221 will kick all factory                    
trawlers out of the U.S. fisheries.  This is not true.  The bill               
will allow any factory trawler that entered the fisheries other                
than through the foreign rebuild misinterpretation to remain in the            
fisheries if it complies with the 75 percent U.S. ownership                    
standard within 18 months.  The practical effect will be a                     
reduction in the factory trawler fleet of between 5 and 10 vessels,            
with the remaining 50 or so factory trawlers allowed to stay in the            
fisheries for the useful life of the vessel.  No new vessels above             
165 feet, 3,000 shaft horsepower, or 750 tons would be allowed to              
enter the fisheries.                                                           
                                                                               
Certain opponents of S. 1221 have tried to argue that factory                  
trawlers and other fishing vessels above the size thresholds in S.             
1221 are clean fishing operations.  Factory trawler operators in               
the mid-water pollock fishery, for instance, point to their discard            
rate of 4.3 percent in 1996 (the most recent year for which                    
National Marine Fisheries Service statistics are available).  They             
correctly argue that this is a relatively low rate compared to                 
other fisheries (due primarily to the fact that mid-water pollock              
do not tend to co-mingle with other species).  However, their rate             
is still more than three times the rate of smaller vessels in that             
same fishery -- the catcher vessels in the mid-water pollock                   
fishery (most of which are below the size thresholds of S. 1221)               
had a discard rate of only 1.4 percent in 1996!  It's also                     
important to note that: (1) even at a discard rate of 4.3 percent,             
mid-water pollock factory trawlers discarded 41.8 million pounds of            
usable fish in 1996; (2) that these same vessles operate in other              
fisheries where their inherently high discard rates have even                  
greater negative effects; and (3) their recovery rate for human-               
consumption quality seafood is a third less than the recovery rate             
for the same pollock processed on shore.  Even as factory trawlers             
begin making fish meal under the North Pacific "full retention"                
plan, less benefit is being derived by Alaska and the nation than              
if those pollock were processed on shore into seafood that could be            
eaten by people.                                                               
                                                                               
It was an eye-opener for many Alaskans recently when some Seattle-             
based factory trawler operators finally changed tactics after they             
failed in 1996 to stop our federal amendments to protect fishing               
communities, reduce bycatch and waste, and create a permanent                  
fishery allocation for western Alaska villages.  The Seattle-based             
companies finally dropped their law suit against the State's                   
landing taxes and began to try to expand shared benefits with                  
Alaska.                                                                        
                                                                               
Thanks again for your efforts in the State Legislature to express              
support for this bill that is so important to Alaska.  With best               
wishes, Cordially, Ted Stevens."                                               
                                                                               
Number 220                                                                     
                                                                               
SENATOR LEMAN agreed with Senator Mackie that this subject is hard             
to understand.  He also said that the on-shore processing has not              
been as good as he was led to believe it was going to be nor was               
the off-shore processing as bad as he was led to believe.  He is               
fully supportive of the Alaska fleet, especially the Alaskan owners            
who want to trawl and have conflicts with fully utilizing their                
vessels.                                                                       
                                                                               
He is also concerned with ensuring that the on-shore processors and            
ownership of them be examined to determine if we are benefiting                
Alaska to the optimum extent possible.                                         
                                                                               
SENATOR LINCOLN asked if S. 1221 was in its final form or was it               
still being amended.                                                           
                                                                               
SENATOR MACKIE replied that he didn't believe it was in final form.            
This is its introductory form.  Mr. Trevor McCabe, Senator Stevens'            
Chief Staff Member, said that this issue is very high priority and             
they expect hearings to start in March.                                        
                                                                               
SENATOR TAYLOR hoped there was a way to modify SJR 33 to take care             
of problems with NMFS attempting to utilize exclusive fish habitat             
zones.  They have expanded their definition based upon the changes             
Senator Stevens put in the Magnuson-Stevens Act.  This might have              
some cumulative effect on particulate matter flowing down the river            
and into the Gulf.                                                             
                                                                               
SENATOR MACKIE responded that he would pass that on to Senator                 
Stevens who said he would be happy to talk to any Committee members            
on the phone personally on this issue.                                         
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN HALFORD said he didn't care to do anything that is going              
to help anybody, big boat or small boat, drag a net on the bottom.             
The next thing that is important to him is bycatch; then he's                  
concerned with where the impact goes in terms of communities and               
the State of Alaska as a whole.  He hoped that Senator Stevens was             
after the maximum benefit to Alaska with a minimum damage to the               
bottom.                                                                        
                                                                               
SENATOR LEMAN added that he wanted to minimize the interception of             
those stocks that have been so controversial in Alaska with other              
user groups, especially as it impacts our management schemes within            
State waters.                                                                  
                                                                               
SENATOR MACKIE appreciated those concerns, but said he is trying to            
stay narrowly focused on this legislation which deals with foreign             
ownership loopholes.                                                           
                                                                               
Number 322                                                                     
                                                                               
MR. RON DALBY, Employment Manager, American Seafood At-Sea                     
Processors, said the job loss, especially in western Alaska would              
be immediate - 650 jobs this year and over 1,000 jobs next year.               
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked how many of those jobs were held by Alaskans            
and western Alaskans.                                                          
                                                                               
MR. DALBY answered about 225 of the 650 Alaskan jobs are at sea.               
Of the 225, 79 came from Alaskan villages west of Dillingham.  The             
"Arctic Storm"  hires are centered around Bristol Bay and probably             
have a much higher percentage of western Alaskans.  Half the                   
balance of the 650 jobs are from southeastern towns.                           
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if he was telling him that an overwhelming              
majority of the 650 people are Alaskans.                                       
                                                                               
MR. DALBY said the 650 people are Alaskans.                                    
                                                                               
SENATOR LINCOLN asked how many people total are out on the vessel              
now.                                                                           
                                                                               
MR. DALBY answered about 4,000.                                                
                                                                               
SENATOR LINCOLN commented that meant 650 Alaskans out of 4,000.                
                                                                               
MR. DALBY agreed and reiterated that the 650 Alaskan jobs would go             
away.                                                                          
                                                                               
SENATOR HALFORD asked why all the Alaskan jobs go away and not the             
other jobs.                                                                    
                                                                               
MR. DALBY clarified that all 4,000 would be put out of business,               
but 650 of them are Alaskans.  He explained that the number of                 
Alaskan hires would go to 1,000 next year at the current rate.  He             
had 700 applications for the 225 openings at his company this year.            
                                                                               
Other contributions the off-shore processors have made to Alaska               
besides the jobs are the steady stream of revenue paid to vendors              
throughout the State, which is about $35 million from his company              
alone.  They spent it on fuel from the dock at Dutch Harbor and dry            
dock overhauls at Ketchikan.  And they paid nearly $1.5 million in             
landing taxes for pollock in 1997.  In the off-season they are able            
to station some of their boats to provide alternative markets for              
salmon fishermen in Bristol Bay for value-added processing, for                
example.  He expects they will pay $6 - $8 million to Alaskans                 
working at sea this year.  They offer more than jobs; they offer               
careers promoting from within the company.  These jobs also fit                
really well with a rural life style in Alaska allowing different               
seasons to be free for subsistence fishing, berry picking, etc.                
                                                                               
MR. DALBY said the at-sea processors have put more than $108                   
million worth of CDQ money into Alaska in the last six years.  Most            
of these western Alaskan communities are partnered with off-shore              
interests.                                                                     
                                                                               
SENATOR LEMAN asked if a person could make about $40,000 in an                 
abbreviated season.                                                            
                                                                               
MR. DALBY said the numbers were fairly good and that the processing            
crews are paid in crew shares.                                                 
                                                                               
Number 427                                                                     
                                                                               
SENATOR LEMAN commented that some people wonder if people who make             
that kind of money should have a priority over people from another             
part of the State who don't earn that much.                                    
                                                                               
SENATOR MACKIE said some people assumed the entire factory trawl at            
sea processing fleet was being eliminated, which this bill clearly             
doesn't do; it affects about 5 - 10 vessels.                                   
                                                                               
MR. DALBY replied that the boats that would be eliminated are the              
largest ones with the largest crews.  So if it's not the whole 650,            
it will be the lion's share of them.                                           
                                                                               
SENATOR LINCOLN asked about the 6 - $8 million per year in wages.              
                                                                               
MR. DALBY clarified that he was just talking about American                    
Seafoods with that figure, not the whole fleet.                                
                                                                               
SENATOR LINCOLN asked what his companys' figures were for Alaskan              
hire.                                                                          
                                                                               
MR. DALBY answered 280 out of the 650.                                         
                                                                               
SENATOR LINCOLN asked what his company's total employment was.                 
                                                                               
MR. DALBY replied that it was about 1,800.                                     
                                                                               
SENATOR LINCOLN remarked that that was less than 20 percent                    
Alaskan.  She asked to see a matrix of his company's Alaska hire.              
She asked what they did with the incidental bycatch.                           
                                                                               
MR. DALBY responded that their bycatch is about 1 + - 2 percent.               
According to skippers, about half of that is jellyfish.  Federal               
law says they are supposed to throw that over the side, but the at-            
sea fleet has asked for permission and does process the odd salmon             
or halibut that might come aboard for donation to food banks.                  
There are zero discards throughout the industry this year because              
of the regulation that went into effect.                                       
                                                                               
SENATOR LINCOLN asked what else they left for Alaskans other than              
the 650 jobs and the fish landing tax.                                         
                                                                               
MR. DALBY replied that they spend $35 million on various vendors               
throughout the State.  They buy millions of gallons of fuel at                 
Dutch Harbor and spend several million per year at the Ketchikan               
Ship Yard.  The fleet as a whole spends about $90 million in                   
Alaska.                                                                        
                                                                               
SENATOR LINCOLN asked where was his point of hire.                             
                                                                               
MR. DALBY answered that contract signings take place in Seattle.               
He offers jobs in Alaska, provides air fare to Seattle, and when               
their contracts end and the ship docks back in Seattle after the               
season, the company provides a ticket home.                                    
                                                                               
SENATOR LINCOLN asked why it was necessary to go to Seattle to sign            
their contracts.                                                               
                                                                               
MR.DALBY said part of it is logistics.  Right now it's the most                
convenient.  As Alaska hire becomes more and more, they will look              
at shifting some of that.                                                      
                                                                               
SENATOR LINCOLN asked if the Committee passed  this bill, was he               
concerned with what the final Steven's bill would look like.                   
                                                                               
MR. DALBY replied that he was and recommended waiting to see what              
the final version looked like.                                                 
                                                                               
SENATOR TAYLOR said he has a constituent who works out of Unalaska             
and he was very upset about the fact that Alaskan long shoremen                
were not being used to move supplies off of his vessels.                       
                                                                               
MR. DALBY replied that they unload at Dutch Harbor.                            
                                                                               
SENATOR TAYLOR asked what percentage of his company was either                 
Alaska or U.S. owned.                                                          
                                                                               
MR. DALBY replied that the outright ownership was primarily                    
Norwegian.                                                                     
                                                                               
SENATOR SHARP asked what the difference in quality was between                 
factory and shore based processors.                                            
                                                                               
MR. DALBY answered that at-sea processed fish tends to bring a                 
higher price since the product is processed right away.  For shore             
plants, the product may be on a boat for a day or two before it's              
delivered.                                                                     
                                                                               
SENATOR SHARP asked if his ships did any bottom dragging.                      
                                                                               
MR. DALBY answered that a couple of vessels will do a cod trip                 
after the pollock "A" season is over, but it's not the traditional             
dragging net, although it's going close to the bottom.  Three or               
four vessels will participate in a hake fishery off of Washington              
and Oregon in May and June, which is similar to Bering Sea pollock.            
                                                                               
SENATOR SHARP asked if smaller ships were just as capable as bigger            
ships of efficiently doing a mid-ocean trawl.                                  
                                                                               
MR. DALBY replied that they essentially drag the same gear.                    
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked who was doing more of what.                             
                                                                               
MR. DALBY said there wasn't any difference to his knowledge.                   
                                                                               
                                                                               
TAPE 98-1, SIDE B                                                              
                                                                               
Number 565                                                                     
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if there was any difference in damage to the            
bottom.                                                                        
                                                                               
MR. DALBY replied that he didn't think it was an issue.                        
                                                                               
SENATOR LINCOLN asked how many vessels they have in Alaskan waters.            
                                                                               
MR. DALBY replied 15 vessels.                                                  
                                                                               
SENATOR LINCOLN asked for exact information about how many vessels             
were fishing and where, and for the percentage of the Board of                 
Directors that was American.                                                   
                                                                               
Number 565                                                                     
                                                                               
MS. MICHELLE RIDGWAY, Marine biologist, said she wanted to comment             
on the benefits of the American Fisheries Act (AFA) and that she               
strongly  supported SJR 33.  Senator Stevens' bill effectively                 
addresses the issue of reducing fishing capacity in the Bering Sea             
which has positive conservation benefits like limiting the number              
of vessels which can be more effectively controlled.  Reducing the             
intensity of the fishing effort will provide managers more options             
for monitoring bycatch and adapting management strategy to protect             
marine mammals as well as provide better in-season assessment of               
other fishing activities.  The AFA also limits the maximum size,               
tonnage and horsepower of vessels allowed in the groundfish fishery            
and, since horsepower limits the size of net these boats can fish,             
it can be used to limit the pace of the fishery.  Collectively,                
these gear and vessel limitations will lead to better management of            
the public's lucrative fishery resources and reduce the risk of                
overfishing.                                                                   
                                                                               
MS. RIDGWAY also commented that they don't have good data in                   
bycatch in the various fisheries right now.  The last data analyzed            
was from 1995.  ADF&G's funding was reduced and 1996 - 97 hasn't               
been done.  She thought it would cost around $10 - $15,000.                    
                                                                               
SENATOR TAYLOR asked who she worked for.                                       
                                                                               
MS. RIDGWAY replied she has a small consulting business in Juneau.             
                                                                               
SENATOR TAYLOR said he and Senator Sharp are on the Fish and Game              
subcommittee for Finance and thought ADF&G should have crunched                
those numbers.                                                                 
                                                                               
MR. DAVE BENSON, Director, Government Affairs, Tyson Seafoods, said            
he fished for a living for 18 years, about 10 years trawling, and              
supported SJR 33.  AFA is designed to finally and fully accomplish             
the goals of the Magnuson-Stevens Act passed in 1976.  It                      
established exclusive U.S. management jurisdiction over all fishery            
resources within the U.S. 200 mile zone and gave American fishermen            
the first priority to harvest them.  Customary with international              
law, the U.S. established a policy of exercising sovereign rights              
over fishery resources.  Unfortunately, since 1987 this policy has             
been progressively reversed.  Today, foreign controlled vessels                
harvest more than half the Bering Sea pollock quota. The AFA                   
addresses the biggest problem today in this industry of                        
overcapitalization.  There are many negative consequences for the              
economics and safety of the industry.                                          
                                                                               
SENATOR GREEN asked him to define overcapitalization.                          
                                                                               
MR. BENSON replied too many boats chasing too few fish.  The AFA               
would directly address overcapitalization in four ways.  First,                
Title 1 would assure that once and for all only bonafide U.S.                  
citizens will benefit from the preference policy.  Reduction in                
capacity should be achieved first by eliminating foreign fishing               
that is now conducted by foreign controlled companies under the                
guise of an American flag.  The bill would increase from 51 percent            
to 75 percent the required level of U.S. citizenship of vessels                
operating in U.S. fisheries and, more importantly, would require 75            
percent of the control of the vessels to be held by bonafide U.S.              
citizens.  Additionally, the bill would establish a vigorous                   
enforcement regime to prevent further circumvention of legislative             
intent by foreign controlled companies interested in preserving                
their ill-gotten American preference.                                          
                                                                               
Second, Title 2 would require those 18 foreign rebuilt high-                   
capacity vessels that entered the U.S. fisheries through a loophole            
created by a misinterpretation of the Act to retire from the                   
fishery.  This means about 5 - 10 vessels, not the entire fleet,               
and a reduction of 20 - 30 percent of the current capacity of the              
Bering Sea fleet.                                                              
                                                                               
Title 3 would prevent vessels that now operate under a foreign flag            
in foreign fisheries, such as Russia, from reentering U.S.                     
fisheries.  He estimates four or five large factory trawlers and               
approximately 13 large crab catcher processors will be prevented               
from entering or reentering North Pacific fisheries - three of                 
which are owned by his company.                                                
                                                                               
Title 3 would also prevent the replacement of vessels over 165 ft.             
This is known as the phase out provision of large vessels, since               
they will be allowed to serve out their useful lives, but will not             
be replaced except in cases of fire or sinking.  Over time, this               
will dramatically reduce the size of the fleet.                                
                                                                               
Opponents of this bill say that it will benefit Tyson at the                   
expense of its competitors, but that's not true since they will                
lose three crab catcher processors in Russia that won't be able to             
return to U.S. crab fisheries and they will be affected by the                 
phase out provisions because the majority of their fleet is over               
the 165 ft. threshold.  Tyson has been consolidating its fleet and             
has been reinvesting millions in the Kodiak shore plant and                    
wouldn't be doing that if they had plans to take over the at-sea               
pollock sector.                                                                
                                                                               
If industry consolidation and control is a concern, he suggested               
looking at the Norwegian controlled at-sea company that now has the            
distinction of owning the largest fleet in the U.S.                            
                                                                               
Hopefully, the AFA will give the Coast Guard greater authority to              
enforce American control of vessels engaged in fishing.  In spite              
of current regulations, they are aware that many factory trawlers              
are still controlled by foreign fish masters and have foreign                  
citizens controlling the top management positions of these vessels.            
Tyson currently employees only U.S. citizens in those positions.               
                                                                               
Opponents will say that thousands of jobs will be lost, but he                 
submitted that the same amount of fish will be caught although by              
fewer vessels and by fewer crew, but the jobs that remain will be              
proportionately longer, certainly more than 70 days per year.  If              
you make the choice to decapitalize, then you eliminate some jobs.             
You can't have it both ways.  His company started an Alaska hire               
campaign in 1995, increasing it by 40 percent that year and have               
increased it even more since then.  They have about 800 employed at            
sea and about 250 people employed in Kodiak.  There are over 25                
percent Alaskans in their work force.                                          
                                                                               
SENATOR SHARP asked how many foreign nationals were working on                 
board.                                                                         
                                                                               
MR. BENSON said he didn't know, but would find out for him.                    
                                                                               
SENATOR SHARP asked how many other boats were affected around the              
U.S.                                                                           
                                                                               
MR. BENSON replied that there was concern about the tuna fleet and             
there were exemptions made in the bill for them, because they are              
primarily a high-seas fleet.  He added that one third of the at-sea            
processing fleet supports this bill including two members of the               
At-Sea Processors Association.                                                 
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked about CDQ support.                                      
                                                                               
MR. BENSON replied that Tyson is a partner with coastal villages on            
the expanded CDQ groundfish that hasn't been implemented yet and               
are also in the process of negotiating a 1998 pollock CDQ                      
arrangement with coastal villages.  They have submitted a response             
to a request for proposals to coastal villages for  99 -2000                   
pollock cycle.  He explained that the difficulty with processing in            
villages is that they have to pay a catcher vessel to go out and               
catch the fish whereas a factory trawler catches and processes                 
right there.  It's a matter of economy.  If the intent is for the              
CDQ villages to make the best arrangements, that's been the best               
kind of arrangement.                                                           
                                                                               
SENATOR GREEN asked if there was any limitation to the number of               
vessels that go out in that fishery and how that was determined.               
                                                                               
MR. BENSON explained that there was a moratorium on new entry                  
established a couple of years ago by the North Pacific Fisheries               
Council that is due to expire at the end of this year.  In its                 
place they have instituted a system called limited license.  So,               
effectively there will be no new entrants in the North Pacific.  In            
other parts of the country, that doesn't exist and Senator Stevens'            
bill addresses that in all parts of the country for large vessels.             
                                                                               
                                                                               
SENATOR GREEN asked if that means that the total number of vessels             
in Alaska in that industry would be 7 - 18 less.                               
                                                                               
MR. BENSON replied that was correct and he thought that would                  
provide the conservation benefit because some of those vessels are             
fishing on the bottom.  The discard and bycatch figures the                    
Committee heard were only for the mid-water pollock fishery and did            
not address other fisheries.                                                   
                                                                               
SENATOR GREEN asked if S. 1221 passed, would the boats that were               
permitted at day one have to reapply every year.                               
                                                                               
MR. BENSON replied that if you were permitted on September 25, 1997            
when Senator Stevens introduced his bill, you would be fine, but               
every year you will have to prove that you have 75 percent U.S.                
citizenship and control of the company.  Small vessels under 32 ft.            
can get into the fishery, but it's already been established that               
there are no more new entrants for large vessels in the North                  
Pacific.                                                                       
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if there was any safety concern with setting            
limits on size of vessels that go out into the Bering Sea.                     
                                                                               
MR. BENSON replied aside from weather conditions, he thought safety            
was an issue because of the derby style of fishing that goes on                
during an opening.  Bigger is not necessarily better; not having a             
choice about when to fish was an issue.  He thought a smaller-more             
orderly fishery would be easier to manage and therefore be safer.              
                                                                               
Number 297                                                                     
                                                                               
MR. JOE PLESHA, Trident Seafoods, said they are 100 percent                    
American owned and operate shore-based processing plants throughout            
Alaska.  Trident was one of the first companies to try to                      
Americanize the groundfish resources off of Alaska buying the first            
Boder fillet machine that was used in Alaska that makes pollock and            
cod into a marketable product.  They strongly support SJR 33.                  
                                                                               
He informed the Committee in the late 1960s and early  70s foreign             
boats dominated the bottom fisheries in our waters.  In 1971,                  
Senator Stevens was the first member of Congress to introduce                  
legislation that expanded U.S. federal jurisdiction out to 200                 
miles.  That legislation went nowhere until 1974, when Senator                 
Magnuson helped him get it going.                                              
                                                                               
In 1976, the Fisheries Conservation and Management Act was enacted             
and it created a preference for American flagged vessels.  Under               
this Act, the American fishing industry developed to the point that            
it was utilizing 100 percent of all of the groundfish off of                   
Alaska.  Then it was determined that it was legal for a foreign                
owned corporation to flag a vessel as a U.S. vessel and just take              
over the fishery.  Senator Stevens was the very first senator in               
1987 to introduce legislation which prohibited the reflagging of               
the fishing vessels.  That legislation had a grandfather provision             
for people who had made substantial financial investments based on             
the status quo and that provision was greatly abused and                       
misinterpreted. The legislation made it clear that if any vessel               
was ever sold that was grandfathered, it would be required to be               
owned by a bonafide U.S. corporation - a corporation that was not              
only incorporated in the U.S., but owned by U.S. citizens.  This               
intent was never carried forward and the bill allowed foreign owned            
fishing vessels to extend their domination of our fisheries to the             
point where at least half of the groundfish is harvested by foreign            
owned vessels again.  The condition now is worse than any time                 
since the Magnuson-Stevens Act was passed 25 years ago.                        
                                                                               
That is the reason Senator Stevens introduced S. 1221 to                       
reincorporate the Americanization component of the Magnuson-Stevens            
Act.  This is not an anti-factory trawler bill, MR. PLESHA                     
emphasized.  There are factory trawlers that built their vessels in            
the U.S. with the understanding that that's what Congress was                  
encouraging.  They are U.S. owned corporations and they will                   
continue to operate.  The employment figures are important; it's               
important that this industry hire Alaskans and the misconception is            
that this bill somehow will decrease the amount of Alaskans that               
are hired.  He feared that the Alaskan hire issue was being used as            
a political pawn.                                                              
                                                                               
MR. PLESHA exhibited a letter from a crew member during the B                  
season which pointed out that out of a crew of 130, only two were              
Alaskans.  And of the 16 vessels in the fleet, he alleged that                 
there were more Norwegians working for the company than Alaskans.              
This is the kind of practice Senator Stevens wants to stop.                    
                                                                               
He said that last time he checked, Trident paid over $9 million in             
taxes to the State of Alaska and a major component of that was from            
their groundfish operations at Akutan and Sand Point.  Their                   
investments in Alaska for groundfish processing is over $120                   
million.  They don't have a choice of moving those to Russia.  If              
they fail, it will tell investors not to invest in Alaska because              
they won't have the flexibility to go elsewhere if things don't                
work out.                                                                      
                                                                               
The City of Akutan has passed a resolution supporting Senator                  
Stevens' legislative effort.  The Aleutians East Borough has also              
passed a similar resolution.  The CDQ group they are partnered                 
with, the Aleutian Pribiloff Community Development Association, has            
passed a resolution supporting this effort, also.                              
                                                                               
He said if this issue comes down to who can spend the most money on            
lobbyists, they will fail, because Shell Roki, one of the principal            
owners of American Seafoods' parent corporation, is one of the                 
richest men in Norway, worth about $700 million.                               
                                                                               
In closing, he said that Senator Stevens has displayed a remarkable            
instinct for what's beneficial for the United States and what's                
beneficial to this State and Trident Seafoods supports him 110                 
percent.                                                                       
                                                                               
Number 188                                                                     
                                                                               
SENATOR LINCOLN said one of the things Senator Stevens said is that            
the recovery rate for human consumption quality seafood is a third             
less than the recovery for the same pollock processed on shore,                
even as fish trawlers began making fish meal under the North                   
Pacific full retention plan.  Less benefit is derived by Alaska and            
the nation, if that pollock were processed on shore into seafood               
that could be eaten by people.  She asked him to comment on this.              
                                                                               
MR. PLESHA said he didn't want to criticize factory trawlers, but              
the truth is that the recovery of a factory trawler vessel to a                
primary product is substantially less than the recovery that shore             
plants receive for the same product.  The reasons are fundamental.             
They pay for the fish that are delivered to their plant, so there              
is incentive to make sure they get the most revenue from each pound            
of fish that's delivered to them.  They have space at their plant              
and enough equipment to make sure they get maximum recovery.  Often            
times factory trawlers lack the space for bunks for employees and              
the machinery to process all that they catch when they catch it.               
He said the differences are fairly dramatic.                                   
                                                                               
SENATOR MACKIE asked if there were lots of opportunities from U.S.             
owned shore-based operations to do joint ventures with CDQ                     
communities for them to realize the benefits of those                          
opportunities.                                                                 
                                                                               
MR. PLESHA replied yes, and if this legislation passes, he thought             
there would be numerous opportunities for CDQ groups who want to               
participate in the off-shore industry.  Only the St. Paul Island               
Group that is partnered with American Seafoods would be opposed to             
this legislation because they would be directly affected.  Other               
groups would not be impacted by the American ownership or the                  
American build requirements.                                                   
                                                                               
MR. MACKIE asked which CDQ group gets a negative impact.                       
                                                                               
MR. PLESHA explained that  American Seafoods, the factory-trawler              
company that is foreign-owned, would be negatively impacted by                 
Senator Stevens' legislation.                                                  
                                                                               
SENATOR SHARP asked where globally are the other pollock fisheries             
that could sustain the large trawlers.                                         
                                                                               
MR. PLESHA replied that these trawlers would likely go to Russia or            
South American where they have a system of selling their fishing               
rights.  So they would have to somehow pay compensation for the                
right to fish in those waters.                                                 
                                                                               
SENATOR LEMAN asked what he knew of foreign ownership of on-shore              
plants and how that's impacting the industry and Alaskan economy               
and asked him to comment on his company's Alaskan hire.                        
                                                                               
MR. PLESHA responded that there is foreign ownership of shore                  
plants, but he emphasized that Congress, the U.S. government, and              
the State of Alaska have always encouraged investment in shore-                
based processing facilities by foreign companies.  In fact, the                
foreign companies in Dutch Harbor who own shore plants were almost             
told they had to invest if they wanted to maintain access to their             
off-shore fishing quota in the mid-1980s.  Contrast that with the              
factory trawlers who were told we now want to eliminate all foreign            
ownership and then a specific law was passed to make sure that                 
couldn't happen.  There were efforts to circumvent that national               
policy by taking advantage of the grandfather exception in the                 
Anti-Reflagging Act.  Secondly, he pointed out that this country in            
the international legal community has a long history of limiting               
foreign ownership of fishing vessels and vessels in general.  But              
that long-standing precedent isn't the case for on-shore                       
investments. He thought there was a real difference between                    
resource extraction and processing of that resource.                           
                                                                               
MR. PLESHA said they had never tried to make a political issue of              
Alaskan hire and that is suddenly something that is being                      
politicized and he thought people were being used to that regard.              
They have an agreement with their CDQ group that anyone they                   
provide to them who is able to work will be found a job.  Their                
client in Akutan has over 50 salaried voters registered in the City            
of Akutan.  They have two people from the village, but the  others             
have lived and worked there so long that they are now registered to            
vote.                                                                          
                                                                               
There needs to be an effort to recruit Alaskans in this industry               
whether Senator Stevens' bill passes or not.                                   
                                                                               
TAPE 98-2, SIDE A                                                              
                                                                               
Number 001                                                                     
                                                                               
MR. VINCE CURRY, Alaska Prime Resources Consultant, said he thought            
Alaska benefits by the fact that we have viable and strong on-shore            
and off-shore processing industries.  He thought this was                      
essentially a debate about which of the dominant processors can                
acquire the pollock to be delivered either to their plant or to                
their factory trawler operation.                                               
                                                                               
He urged the Committee to consider that we have a fully developed              
fishery in the North Pacific, the Bering Sea pollock fishery, which            
is the most valuable fishery we have in Alaska right now.  He                  
thought it was good for the State to have two sectors that are                 
competing as hard as they can right now for lawmakers' attention               
and relationships with Alaskans.                                               
                                                                               
Data from the Department of Labor shows that the seafood processing            
industry historically both off-shore and on-shore has been one of              
the worst hirers of Alaskans in any industry.  The targeted vessels            
by this bill are the key producers for the off-shore fleet.  It is             
a difficult thing for Alaska to endorse a course of conduct that               
will remove investments that have been made with Alaskans who have             
joined in the enterprise.                                                      
                                                                               
An excerpt from the license limitation document profiles who owns              
the vessels in the groundfish fishery.  It does it by 60 ft, 60-125            
ft., and above 125 ft. vessel lengths. Virtually every vessel that             
participates in the Bering Sea pollock fishery is over 125 ft.                 
There is zero ownership in Alaska in the over 125 ft. category.                
This supports the notion that in terms of the Bering Sea harvesting            
this is not an Alaskan issue - unless you look at things like the              
Norton Sound purchase of a factory trawler company where they are              
harvesting the fish.  The 60 and 60 - 125 ft. boats are largely in             
the Gulf of Alaska which is a non-issue for this bill, because the             
law of the federally managed fishery prohibits any factory trawler             
from coming in and harvesting pollock in the Gulf of Alaska.  So,              
it's a non-issue in terms of Senator Mackie's constituents in                  
Kodiak.                                                                        
                                                                               
In addition, he has charts reflecting the ownership of the vessels             
over 125 ft. from 1992 - 97 which show that the shore plants have              
been acquiring a greater share in ownership of the vessels that                
they depend on to deliver them pollock.                                        
                                                                               
He emphasized again that this is a processors' battle and asked                
legislators to look where the Alaskan interests rise and fall                  
within the controversy.                                                        
                                                                               
An article from Fishing News International of June  97 reflects                
that Westward Seafood's purchase of a factory trawler called the               
Alaska Command is being converted into a catcher boat.  These are              
fine boats and are the kind you need to efficiently harvest pollock            
and bring it to a plant.  There is nothing inherently evil about a             
factory trawler because the same kinds of vessels and gear are                 
being used to bring the same resource to the processor on-shore.               
He said it is a constant game within the fishery to "throw mud at              
another group to make them look bad."                                          
                                                                               
Finally, one of the conclusions in a report from DCR&A on on-shore             
off-shore allocation of the pollock CDQ program says that there                
appears to be a substantial wage differential between each sector              
with greater earning opportunities to CDQ residents in the off-                
shore sector.  The wages paid in the on-shore plants are often                 
barely above minimum wage.  Often residents of a community where a             
plant is located do not participate in the employment opportunities            
these plants provide due to the high cost of living in rural                   
Alaska.  Therefore, a large part of the on-shore plant's work force            
is imported from other communities, states, or nations.  He thought            
we should pause and consider what kinds of opportunities there are             
in the pollock industry for Alaskans.  Because of the complexity of            
this issue, it's hard to hear testimony from a few lobbyists from              
the on shore and off shore plants and conclude that you know what              
will be in the best interests of Alaska.  He urged them to make a              
full scale inquiry into this matter.  S. 1221 will have many                   
hearings and there will likely be modifications to the bill.  When             
it's in its final form, they could then properly consider whether              
it's something to endorse.                                                     
                                                                               
SENATOR MACKIE asked how many CDQ groups he knew that would be                 
affected by this bill.                                                         
                                                                               
MR. CURRY answered that the Norton Sound one would be affected.                
                                                                               
SENATOR MACKIE interrupted to say that he talked to a person a                 
Norton Sound today who said they wouldn't be affected because they             
are American owned.                                                            
                                                                               
MR. CURRY responded if plants no longer have to compete for CDQ                
quota, then the quota that's out there will fall and that is one               
way all CDQ communities will be affected.  Secondly, other support             
businesses would be affected without people returning to the                   
villages.                                                                      
                                                                               
SENATOR MACKIE said he understood that there was only one group                
that would be affected because it is foreign-owned.                            
                                                                               
MR. CURRY repeated that the issues are complex and we don't know or            
understand all the ramifications yet.                                          
                                                                               
MR. HENRY MITCHELL, Mitchell Inc., said he is here in conjunction              
with the Tyson Seafood Group and has been with the Bering Sea                  
Fishermen's Association, which in the early 80's was one of the                
main proponents attacking the major issues - the dominance of the              
foreign fishery and the manipulation of the products of that                   
fishery to do things that were bad long-term.  He briefly                      
reiterated the history of this issue and said S. 1221 would only               
acomplish an element of decapitalization which is very important.              
If there is reduction in capitalization, the participants who are              
left there will still be major players.  He thought there would be             
at least a measure of moving toward sanity in these fisheries.                 
                                                                               
Many of the bigger boats that were owned by other entities went                
bankrupt.  A great portion of those boats were absorbed by American            
Seafoods which was moving forward.  If the Stevens's legislation               
passes in its present form, it is a measure of decapitalization and            
will slow down the fishery.  It will not deny opportunities for the            
CDQ groups to prosper.  Back in the early 80's when they were                  
proposing ways to get villagers from western Alaska into these                 
fisheries, nobody wanted to help them out.  Once it was                        
orchestrated that they get this quota, everyone realized the value.            
He didn't believe the value of their CDQ quotas would be impacted              
by the passage of this bill.                                                   
                                                                               
If this bill passes, it will allow for a slower fishery, one which             
allows for participants to spend more time watching out for bycatch            
hot spots which would have significant benefits in its reduction.              
He said these fisheries change over time and the only thing they               
are really going to know is that they will be conducted by smaller             
vessels, but it will be easier to stay within the parameters of                
successful fishing and bycatch limitations.  He thought many of the            
effects were being overblown by many of the participants.  Many of             
the vessels that are there now are not legitimately there; they                
snuck in through the back door and it isn't right.                             
                                                                               
Number 308                                                                     
                                                                               
MR. JIM INGRAM, Bristol Bay commercial fisherman, opposed SJR 33.              
Off shore processors provide his area with more salmon markets.                
According to his son, the off shore schedule is good, the pay is               
excellent, and the benefits are sufficient.  He praised the off-               
shore processors for their strict drug policy requirements.  Many              
young people refuse to work in at shore plants.  He asked who would            
be liable for the lives and safety of the crew on a boat under 165             
feet with a load of polluck in a 100 knot wind.  He asked if this              
would end the competition of the bidding process for CDQ shares and            
eliminate employment opportunities.                                            
                                                                               
MR. AL BURCH, Kodiak vessel owner, said his two boats, 86 ft. and              
96 ft., are engaged in the pollock fishery at this time.  He                   
supported the remarks made by Mr. Benson, Mr. Plesha, and Mr.                  
Mitchell.  He thought testimony was stretching the resolution out              
of shape and it was very concise and focused on a particular                   
problem that needs to be solved.                                               
                                                                               
MR. HAROLD JONES, a commercial fisherman for 51 years, said he has             
a 96 ft. trawler and has seen a tremendous influx of factory                   
trawlers that cut their fisheries down from the original 10 months             
out of a year down to 50 - 70 days.  He heartily supported SJR 33.             
                                                                               
MR. EUGENE ASICKSIK, President, Norton Sound Economic Development              
Council (NSEDC), said they have purchased 50 percent of Glacier                
Fish Co. which owns two mid-water factory trawlers.  He expressed              
concerns with this bill, although he supported the Magnuson-Stevens            
Act.  He said they are watching this bill and he is concerned with             
what is happening to the fish.                                                 
                                                                               
MS. TAMMY POUND, Dutch Harbor resident, said she wasn't employed by            
either sector or the pollock industry, but the livelihood of her               
family is derived directly from an off shore fishing company.  The             
legislation will negatively impact her family with the loss of a               
living wage job.  She thought this would affect many families in               
Dutch Harbor and the State.  She thought the bottom line was which             
companies will get the fish and the dollar.                                    
                                                                               
MR. TINY SHASTEEN agreed with Senator Leman that the off-shore                 
fleet is not as bad as its made out to be and the on-shore fleet               
isn't as good as it's made out to be.  Many people own both on-                
shore and off-shore processors, he pointed out.  If this is a                  
conservation issue and they limit boats now, he asked who would                
they limit in the future?  If it's an Americanization issue, he                
though we have healthy diversity with fish going to markets all                
over the world and some good competition.                                      
                                                                               
MR. KENNY WILSON said he was worried about the 165 ft. limit                   
because the larger vessels employ a lot of young people who live in            
western Alaska.  If they loose their jobs, it would put a lot of               
hardship on their families.  He said a larger ship was safer in 100            
knot winds.                                                                    
                                                                               
MR. OLIVER HOLM said he thought the factory trawlers affect the                
health of the shore plants, which is what Alaska fishermen are                 
linked to and they need to be healthy in order for us to have good             
markets.  This reflagging loophole will let more boats in than                 
should have been allowed and the factory trawler fleet has been                
overcapitalized to the detriment of the shore-side industry.  There            
is a long history of outside groups buying out small segments of               
the Alaskan population to the detriment of the State and policies              
as a whole.  He strongly supported SJR 33.                                     
                                                                               
MR. JEFF STEPHAN, United Fishermen's Marketing Association,                    
supported SJR 33 for all the reasons they have heard, generally,               
with the idea that it was a loophole that was meant to be closed.              
                                                                               
MR. CHRIS BERNS supported SJR 33, especially line 9.  He said we               
kicked the Canadians out of our fisheries and we can do it to the              
Norweigans.  He supported more local hire on the Slope.                        
                                                                               
MAYOR RON SELBY, Kodiak Borough, said that some of the testimony               
has been overblown.  It has no jobs impact, no CDQ impact, no on-              
shore/off-shore impact.  It's a matter of 5 - 10 vessels that                  
illegally entered the fishery in the first place and taking them               
out of the fishery.  With the American Reflagging Act they tried               
real hard to keep the foreign vessels out.  Without these boats,               
the fishery will still be overcapitalized, but it is a place to                
start.  That's all this does.  It doesn't change the off-shore                 
quota allocation.  It's just that 50 boats will be catching the                
fish now and not 60.  He didn't see a lot of Alaskans losing their             
jobs over this issue.                                                          
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN HALFORD thanked everyone for their testimony and adjourned            
the meeting at 5:55 p.m.                                                       

Document Name Date/Time Subjects